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CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

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CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Commodore on Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:02 am

Spell criticals are now rolled each time a damage effect is applied rather than only when a spell is cast.

This will change MANY of our damage spells.

What do the guild casters think of this change?


Aandre (Fighter) - Mississippee (Spellsinger) - Gharrick (Warchanter) - Miinsc (Artificer) - Dogfaced (Intimitank) - Comodore (Ranger) - Corkee (Monk) - Joltin (Ranger) - Loca (Rogue) - LeslieWest (Fighter) - Frobozz (Wizard) - RicFlair (Cleric) - Pappalardi (Paladin) - Govvanon (Druid) - VicTwenty (Fighter) - Hyperiion (FvS).
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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Abub on Wed Dec 15, 2010 4:18 pm

I'm not one of our casters yet... but on the surface I think this sounds good. Maybe people will cast firewall less now.
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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Paks on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:51 pm

On the surface, it looks like a nerf. (You mean I can't just cast a crit fire wall and burn them all down?!) IMO, it's a fix.
Too many casters were kiting all the monsters to one spot and casting CC, then expecting the melee's to pick up the slack, and the healers to rez them if (when) they died. I believe that the zerging soloist types will bitch about it because they are being forced to slow down, or face the consequences of their choices. Given the fact that most Tyrs casters are not that type, I do not see any issue.
The other side benefit is that now the DPS in party will have more to do than chase after the casters wondering when they'll get a kill; or trying to stay in FRONT of the caster just to get to use that great axe a few times.

I have, on more than one occasion, bitched that my fighter was useless in quest because the caster was insta-killing everything in sight.


Just my opinion, take it how you will.


Paks~Pally; Kyro~Ranger(TR); Kiyla~Pally(TR); Shar~Spellsinger/AA(TR); Bel~ArchMage; Kat~Arcane Archer(TR); Lyartia~Cleric; Tyrsis~Mechanic(TR); Shyalla~Arcane Kensai; HaukeMoon~Monk; Kyllarr~Fire Savant; Ayedail~Tempest Ranger; Kaensada~FvS; Taymyrr~Assassin(TR); Androimeda~Artificer; Kamariel~Henshin; Thanatuss~PaleMaster; Riaen~SwashBuckler

NWO(@paks54): Paks~Devoted Cleric; Taymyrr~Trickster Rogue; Akat'ten~Devoted Cleric; Kyro~Control Wizard; Katrya~Hunter Ranger; Nykyrian~Hunter Ranger; Saraphine~Scourge Warlock

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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Commodore on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:16 pm

I'm going to illustrate the difference between the old and new crit spell system with Statistics 101.

Consider this example. I'm running through elite Amrath where it takes me five non-crit chain lightnings to kill a group of mobs (let's say there are ten of them). I can also clear the mobs with two regular casts and one crit, or two crits. My crit chance is 18%. (I assume for simplicity that every mob gets hit every time, and no mob ever makes the save).

Chance of clearing group after 2 casts: 3.2%
Chance of clearing group after 3 casts: 42%
Chance of clearing group after 4 casts: 10%
Chance of clearing group on the 5th cast: 44.8%
The average number of casts, therefore, is 4.0.

With the new crit system, the crits will almost never be evenly distributed. In order to clear the group in two casts, all 20 checks must result in a crit. That will probably never happen. In order to clear the group in three casts, each mob must get hit by a crit at least once. And so on.

Chance of clearing group after 2 casts: 0.000000000000013%
Chance of clearing group after 3 casts: 0.2%
Chance of clearing group after 4 casts: 3.7%
Chance of clearing group on the 4th cast: 96.1%
The average number of casts, therefore, is 4.99

This is why the new crit system discourages one-shot AoE nukes.

Credit for this analysis goes to Kernal from the DDO forums.

So... for a soloing caster that's trying to nuke everything, and that's his only source of damage, this is a serious nerf. But the upside is that, in a party or on a melee-caster, it's more likely that a fireball will outright kill some of a mob, thinning it out and making it easier to melee.

As Paks stated in last post, this is a big win for intelligent group play. This will definitely necessitate a change of tactics for many sorcs and some wizards that rely on a few spells for a majority of their content (the solo nukers being most heavily affected).

For those wizards and sorcs that have long studied and utilize a wide variety of spells, they will be the least affected.

In my experience, this change is not as bad for wizards as it is for sorcerers. Wizards tend to favor more mana efficient methods of killing (Persistent AoEs) because of a smaller SP pool. It mostly hurts the solo sorcerer.

If you are an arcane that is either grouping or using persistent AoE effects, the spell crit change is a positive change.

I think that, overall, this will be seen as a positive change for the Tyrs casters because the larger majority of our casters use persistent AoEs and/or group more than they solo.



Aandre (Fighter) - Mississippee (Spellsinger) - Gharrick (Warchanter) - Miinsc (Artificer) - Dogfaced (Intimitank) - Comodore (Ranger) - Corkee (Monk) - Joltin (Ranger) - Loca (Rogue) - LeslieWest (Fighter) - Frobozz (Wizard) - RicFlair (Cleric) - Pappalardi (Paladin) - Govvanon (Druid) - VicTwenty (Fighter) - Hyperiion (FvS).
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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Abub on Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:32 pm

But the thing is... Firewall has been broke in this game since the ... well... since before I started playing it. Its nice for the game to start encouraging ANY other spells then firewall. I know its effective and online games are always reduced to the min/max weapons/spells/gears by any community but its something I've long hated because that always waters down the flavor of any game.


That and... I sort of ... hate... standing in the damn firewalls. I think FW should get its damage or duration nerfed.... I think casters should be throwing fireballs and not firewalls. In PnP nobody uses firewall like we see it here... well.. because you can't dance in a PnP firewall without killing yourself.

Want that I should complain about charm person? Celebrate Razz



Now I admit that I'm partly whining about a personal preference. Check Back with me when my 6th level wiz OotsAbub gets firewall. Embarassed
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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Muiread on Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:38 am

i think it will even some things out. sure it's going to suck in the beginning ...but good casters will prevail! Drunk

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Re: CASTERS: The new Update 8 crit hit system.

Post  Guest on Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:07 am

To be completely honest, Im surprised that they did things like this rather than changing the way spells like FoD and Wail work. Insta-death spells are typically the first thing to get whacked, particularly spells like Wail...

Things like wall of fire are all good and well, except you still have to dance around enemies, and its not like every wall you put out there was getting crits (or at least I wasnt O.o) Personally I think it will lead to a change from Firewalls to delayed Fireball or just a straight Maxed fireball being launched.

However what I see in the future here is a big change from evokers to enchanters. If you cant blow em up, get them to fight their friends for ya....

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