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First Life Acrobat Build for Review

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First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  Swiftcleave on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:06 pm

Got a request for an Acrobat build. First life, so no tomes added yet. Tomes can be added if they become available. Let me know what you think.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Halfling Rogue 32pt Acrobat
Level 20 Neutral Good Halfling Female
(20 Rogue)
Hit Points: 244
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 24
Will: 6

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)

Strength 12 12
Dexterity 18 28
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 16 18
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 8 8

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)

Balance 4 16
Bluff 3 23
Concentration 2 3
Diplomacy 3 23
Disable Device 7 34
Haggle -1 18
Heal -1 0
Hide 8 37
Intimidate -1 0
Jump 5 31
Listen -1 2
Move Silently 8 35
Open Lock 8 35
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 3 5
Search 7 32
Spot 3 25
Swim 1 2
Tumble 8 21
Use Magic Device 3 23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Balance I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I

Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I

Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Balance II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II

Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II

Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Nimble Fingers
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat I

Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II

Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I

Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III

Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II

Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Thief-Acrobat II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III

Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV

Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Search I
Enhancement: Improved Search II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II

Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II

Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Crippling Strike
Enhancement: Improved Search III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III

Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV

Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device IV

Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing IV

Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Improved Search IV
Enhancement: Improved Spot II


There is no free lunch.

Arndis -- Calroth -- Dubhlin -- Falroth -- Ghaelii (Kelly) -- Hargold -- Hrafnor -- Kralorn -- Laeredra (Lair-drah) -- Podkayne -- Snarker -- Treln 18 Ranger -- Redlohmai 148/144/144 crafter -- Swiftcleave
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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  wulfster on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Hi Swift!!

Hmm, I have played around with a few Acrobat chars in the past but never got that far with any of them. If I remember right though, there are only a few Q-staves that use dex to hit, and having a base 12 str is going to really hurt with the halfling carrying capacity reduction (not to mention opening you up to being burdoned when hit with rays of enfeeblement etc).

A strength tome will help eventually...but even so I might suggest dropping your int a bit to boost str instead. If you drop int to 12...you could go with a 14 base str (also nice for the bonus dmg you get there (3 instead of 1 due to 1.5 str bonus on 2 handed weapons).

Your not even getting any int based feats that I see, and with proper equipment you should be fine at disarming traps and opening locks.

Speaking of that....I'm not sure why your taking nimble fingers? Is there a new requirement for it or something? With eq etc along the way you should be able to get plenty high disarm traps and open locks...unless new content has made specializing more important now.

Finally, don't get me wrong...I like halflings, in fact my current char is a halfling, but is there a reason your going halfling?. Human or if you have the option half-elf might be better for your build. You won't get quite as high a dex..but super high dex isn't really that important for acrobat builds (you just add the dex bonus to sneak attacks..so 1 or 2 extra points isn't going to make a huge diff). Half elf monk dilli's for instance can get a ton of healing amp....along with dex/con or dex/str bonuses etc. Humans get human versatility which is very nice, +1 skill point (compensates for 2 int) and 1 bonus feat.

Halflings are great for a variety of reasons. you can boost their sneak attack damage a bit, they have awesome dragon marks (but your not taking those) and they are cute. It's it's a theme reason I totally understand, but if not....you might want to go with human/half-elf instead.

I'm not an expert btw, just throwing out some ideas from what I have seen in game:)

My previous acrobats have usually multiclassed with 2 or more monk levels...for the monk stance bonus, wis bonus to AC, and bonus feats (not to mention nice saving throw bonuses etc). Also, they usually specialized primarily in STR not dex. Acrobats get a nice speed boost to staff attacks (and only acrobat II was available when I played before..so 13 rogue levels (which included 2 rogue bonus feats) was enough.

That let a build like Rogue 13/monk 6/fighter 1 or rogue 13/monk 7 work really well.

The 6 monk levels let you get the second wind stance which is 10% faster attack speed (stacks with the 20% from acrobat) and 5% double strike chance.

The real advantage here over other two handed builds was the very fast attack speed of your Q-staff (I think they attack faster naturally then other 2 handed weapons as well..but not sure about that).

To capitalize on that damage.....you wanted as much str as you could get (since it affects both your to hit, and gives 1.5x str damage). Also...you REALLY want power attack as well (and as soon as possible).

Sneak attack damage is a nice bonus (especially if you get stunning blow and a weighted staff)....but high str acrobats can obliterate stuff just fine without even getting sneak attacks.

I believe mine actually used the monk/fighter bonus feats to snag whirlwind early on....and used that and great cleave to wipe out large groups of enemies from invisibility (got sneak attacks on all of them that way).

A pure rogue acrobat would not get that probably (lack of feats) but you still might want to at least get power attack...and strongly consider focusing on str instead of dex. Str is very important for Q-staff users in my experience.


Last edited by wulfster on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : needed to add more)

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  blari345 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:42 am

Hey there. I just started an acrobat as well. She is a multiclass like wulfster described below. I chose halfling str build, I did this because it looks like when the new action point enhansment system comes on line acrobats will be able to use dex for attack and damage. When it happens I plan on using my free LR to change from str to a dex build.

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  wulfster on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 pm

Oh wow!! That will soooo rock!!

I really hope they do let acrobats use dex instead of str. I will be all over that hehe. In that case halfling is a great idea for an acrobat after the change. If they put in acrobat III...then maybe going with 2 monk levels alone would still be a good idea (and skipping the fighter level).

Thanks for the heads up. Is there a link or something to show what is planned for the enhancement revamp?

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  blari345 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:35 pm

The new enhansments will work more like the epic destinys by putting points into trees etc.
The info on it is down this page.
http://ddowiki.com/page/In_development

Things might change but here is an early look at Acrobat, Henshin Mystic and Assassin.
http://ddowiki.com/page/In_development/Enhancements

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  wulfster on Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:25 am

Wow, thanks blari, that is awesome information. It does say the enhancement pass isn't going to be soon though...so I guess I won't build any characters over it.

You can't change your race sadly...so racial trees are going to be fixed (and may make a huge difference after the pass), but the multi-class aspects look pretty awesome since you can in theory go up the tree with only 1 or 2 levels in a class (although it said some high tier enhancements may have a min class level req.

Anyway, way more information then I have....and.....it does look like alot of fun when it gets implemented.

Smile

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  pms on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:22 am

After playing both acrobats and monks, I have to agree with Wulfster on one thing...

doing nothing for strength will leave the character like a 1000 moths against a stone - lots of hits (dex bonus) but little damage.

I would increase strength in the original build. Did you pump intel up 'just' to the point of costing 2pts/increase or did you go over that? With 28 pts to spread, it's difficult to justify stats that cost anymore than 1pt/increase.

I'm a purest on many builds, so I like halflings as a choice for rogue (Rykitiki is one - though I went mechanic over acrobat recently - since Pms is acrobat).

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  Swiftcleave on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:19 am

The tree-based enhancements aren't coming any earlier than update 18, and possibly not then. So, this build is based on the current system.

As I understand, Thief/Acrobat gets a Dex bonus to sneak attack quarterstaff damage, according to ddowiki here http://ddowiki.com/page/Thief-Acrobat_enhancements. That's why I didn't put in extra strength at the start of the build. If I'm incorrect here, please let me know. This character is going to be primarily a party member, so concerns about solo ability are unnecessary.

This is a 32pt build, so I bumped intelligence to 16 for disable device and search, which are going to be low at level 20, imo, even with 16 intelligence at start. This is a rogue, and the primary purpose of a rogue is to disable traps for the rest of the party.

Will review this build again in a few days, after I do a bit more research.


There is no free lunch.

Arndis -- Calroth -- Dubhlin -- Falroth -- Ghaelii (Kelly) -- Hargold -- Hrafnor -- Kralorn -- Laeredra (Lair-drah) -- Podkayne -- Snarker -- Treln 18 Ranger -- Redlohmai 148/144/144 crafter -- Swiftcleave
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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  Commodore on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:47 pm

A 16 int is more then plenty to get every trap in the game, with proper gear.

Here's a tremendously valuable resource, for any type of trapsmith:

http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks




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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  Commodore on Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:58 pm

Rogue skills are determined by skill ranks, stat modifiers, enhancements, items and buffs in a purely additive fashion.

So if you have 7 ranks, a +2 stat modifier, a +5 item, a +1 enhancement, Masterwork tools (+2) and a +2 from the Heroism spell your score is 19. You roll a d20 and add your score, then compare it to the DC of the lock or trap. If it is equal or greater, the lock is opened or the trap disarmed. If it is less, you fail and the lock remains locked or the trap remains active. If you fail by 5 or more on a trap, the box blows up and characters in the area take damage. Also, it means that you can't make any more attempts to disarm it. Each attempt uses one tool.

As levels increase, so do DCs. But just maxing Spot/Search and DD will allow you to disable 95% of traps at level if you have +5 tools.

Spot/Search is actually much more difficult than DD because you don't get a roll. Either your skill is high enough or it's not.


Aandre (Fighter) - Mississippee (Spellsinger) - Gharrick (Warchanter) - Miinsc (Artificer) - Dogfaced (Intimitank) - Comodore (Ranger) - Corkee (Monk) - Joltin (Ranger) - Loca (Rogue) - LeslieWest (Fighter) - Frobozz (Wizard) - RicFlair (Cleric) - Pappalardi (Paladin) - Govvanon (Druid) - VicTwenty (Fighter) - Hyperiion (FvS).
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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  wulfster on Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:46 pm

Nog, in fact it seems to me rogues often have a harder time with search then disarm traps (and never really with open locks since you can keep retrying).

But since you can get SO many bonuses to your skills (greater heroism, stat boosts, +skill item etc)...and you'll pick them up naturally as you play...I don't think you need to go crazy with starting stats (int) as a rogue...unless your playing an assassin of course.

As far as +1 to sneak attack damage, you do get that as an acrobat..but it's only +1 per dex bonus....AND it's only on sneak attacks.

Meanwhile strength gives +1.5 per str bonus on Q-staves...and works ALL the time (Even vs sneak attack immune enemies..or when your not getting a sneak attack etc).

Even Q-staves that give to hit/damage based on dex only give +1 instead of the +1.5x bonus you get from strength.

For Acrobats...since you get such a fast attack speed...I think strength is more important then other types of Rogues (who may focus largely on elemental bonus damage/sneak attack damage and weapon effects...using TWF).

Even a pure acrobat with no monk levels will still gain a ton from having a high strength. I wouldn't go crazy (no spending 3 points per increase), but with a 32 point build I would consider going with the 2 points per bonus (16 for non-halflings and 14 for halflings).

For human/H-elf, I'd even consider going with str as one of your racial bonus stats.

Heck even a H-orc can make a good rogue, since you get bonus two handed weapon damage, bonus strength (very important) and bonus power attack damage. I just think H-orcs are ugly though...but they would probably make a decent Acrobat.

Yeah, looks like the changes are not coming for awhile..and they are going to be so large that planning for them now makes no sense really. If anything though it looks like Human/h-elf might be even better since you can get to any other racial tree from them if you want.

I'd probably go something like this for a pure Acrobat (though honestly for now...it makes almost no sense not to grab at least 1 monk level (and probably 2).

Human Rogue Acrobat 20

Str 16 (10)
Dex 14 (06)
con 14 (06)
Int 14 (06)
Wis 12 (04)
Cha 08 (00)

The grab Str/Con as my human stat bonuses and put all level up stats into strength.

Con is so you can get another toughness enhancement btw (otherwise you can go with dex instead).

Skip nimble fingers (you'd be better off taking skill focus disarm trap if you went that route anyway), and get power attack asap. The THF feats are also quite nice to get as soon as possible as well.

If your not going to take any monk levels..you could go H-elf instead to snag monk Dilli for the additional healing amp (and some wis bonus to ac which isn't really a factor anymore).


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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  blari345 on Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:09 pm

Yes my halflik=ng acrobat started with 14 str and is putting all level ups into it and only started with 12 int and I'm sure she will do fine. In regards to the new enhansments I have only planned as far as my race and thats only because I have no interest TRing. I have heard that there are a lot of horc acrobats due to the thf bonuses that they get.

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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

Post  Swiftcleave on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:28 am

Commodore wrote:A 16 int is more then plenty to get every trap in the game, with proper gear.

Here's a tremendously valuable resource, for any type of trapsmith:

http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks
Thanks Comm, this is quite handy to have as a reference. You rock!


There is no free lunch.

Arndis -- Calroth -- Dubhlin -- Falroth -- Ghaelii (Kelly) -- Hargold -- Hrafnor -- Kralorn -- Laeredra (Lair-drah) -- Podkayne -- Snarker -- Treln 18 Ranger -- Redlohmai 148/144/144 crafter -- Swiftcleave
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Re: First Life Acrobat Build for Review

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